Earthquake

[topum]

An earthquake a minute ago woke us all up here. I do not know how strong it was but everything was moving quite a bit and there was quite a bit of noise as well. I think it was quite short, shorter than a minute. Some people went outside but we stayed in and I am going back to sleep shortly. People are worried about repeats and are saying that they often come in batches here.

Update: I found it on earthquaketrack, it was 5.6 magnitude (Romanians are reporting 6.1 magnitude) earthquake 5 km from Nereju Mic, Vrancea, Romania.

Comments

[topum.livejournal.com]

I don't think they do, they still know that their parents can ground them any minute and not give them their chocolate bars.

[diejacobsleiter.livejournal.com]

But if they already received a chocolate bar (for good behaviour, of course), isn't that a moment for delusion to pop in their mind - that the world is under control?

[topum.livejournal.com]

No, children never have the feeling that they are in control of the world. This delusion comes later to some.

[diejacobsleiter.livejournal.com]

You are a mind reader! This is exactly what I am driving at! A child with an imaginary wheel was a metaphor for some delusional descendent mentioned above...

[topum.livejournal.com]

But children never think that they are in control of the world so they cannot be a metaphor for someone who does.

[diejacobsleiter.livejournal.com]

Of course not. But their play with an imaginary driving wheel and roaring sounds mean that they have an illusion of driving the car. So this can be a metaphor of an adult person imagining or playing in "ruling the world".

[topum.livejournal.com]

I don't think kids believe that they are actually driving the car. And given that "ruling the world" itself was used as a hyperbole for "very tough" it is too many metaphors and hyperboles for me in one place ).

[diejacobsleiter.livejournal.com]

OK, we'll find another way of fighting for top toughness and world leadership. Beware!

[topum.livejournal.com]

Oh those Russians! Always threats and fighting from you, guys ). Now I understand why we are building that wall at the border with you, ha ha. Until this moment I thought it was a silly project.

[diejacobsleiter.livejournal.com]

Aha, you are scared!..

Well, I am here not as a Russian but as just a tough guy. Unlike my compatriots, I like a fair play, and my challenge is not a threat. And yes, speaking seriously, I support the idea of a wall around my country. Its both foreign and home politics are nothing but bullyuing and hooliganism. It is very dangerous for the world, more than ISIS.

[topum.livejournal.com]

I don't think so. And I don't think walls can solve anything.
I am sure your compatriots also think that they like fair play.
The whole world is still just a theatre of bullying and hooliganism, Russia is not alone in it.
But yes, you guys a definitely a notable player ).

[diejacobsleiter.livejournal.com]

"The whole world is still just a theatre of bullying and hooliganism, Russia is not alone in it."

This is not my first day on the earth, and I know a little about how things go in the world. You know, to see a similarity is a first step of intellectual work. The second one, more important, is to see differences above similarities.

And there is an essential difference in the mentality of the gang that took power in my country. It wasn't always like this. The KGB "lodge" has a really different mentality, they are true "aliens", even at home. They consider their own country as an occupied territory, a colony, and all the world - as an enemy to fight. They are really different and really dangerous. It's not the same thing as US bullying Middle East or ISIS bullying Europe.

And I don't mean a brick wall. They must be isolated, like USSR, until they come to an inevitable economic failure (as USSR did in 1980s). Fighting with them will make them stronger. The world should only avoid a war and give them a chance to prove their utter amateurship in economics and state building.

[topum.livejournal.com]

This is not my first day on earth either. And not my first intellectual effort too, I think I can see both similarities and differences by now.
I do not agree with you that Russia is somehow on a different scale or of a different nature from other "troublemakers". China has all of that too for example.
And an overwhelming majority of Russian population seems to support the KGB ruling group so they cannot be that alien there.

[diejacobsleiter.livejournal.com]

"I do not agree with you that Russia is somehow on a different scale or of a different nature from other "troublemakers".

Well, I still think that there is some strong specifics, related to the KGB background. It 's not like MI-5 or CIA, it's a sort of lodge or semisecret orden, with a very "alternative" ethics and vision of life. And it is easily checkable that today the key power positions are in hands of the "officers". It's not only unproportional. It's a total control. And no conspirology, because nobody hides it. It's all cynical and open.

"And an overwhelming majority of Russian population seems to support the KGB ruling group so they cannot be that alien there."

Oh, sheeps can vote for wolves, nothing strange about it. Some are frightened, some are indifferent, some are brainwashed, some are stockholm-syndromed, some are just servile, some mistake obedience to bosses for patriotizm, and some just dream to jump from sheeps to wolves.

[topum.livejournal.com]

We will have a big problem on our hands if we just start branding the people who vote for someone voluntarily "sheep" and just "brain-washed" and "servile" and assume that only we see the light and have not been brain-washed and that our votes are above theirs.

And the clique at the top does not work much differently in say China or many Arab states, many African states too (and there is way less freedom of information in all of these than it is in Russia for example). We will have to cut out and put the fence between us and more than half of the world (after branding them as sheep).

[diejacobsleiter.livejournal.com]

if we just start branding the people who vote for someone voluntarily "sheep" and just "brain-washed" and "servile"

Thank you for the lesson of political correctness, but you seem to have no clue how in reality the elections go in the country...

Moral rules teach use to respect any stranger, any person we don't know. We shouldn't be prejudiced and mustn't use "bad words". But after knowing for sure that the person as a paedophile or a murderer or a coward or a liar, no moral rules oblige us to keep paying respect. No more "granted" respect, only deserved one.

My words may sound out of the ways of political correctness or granted respect for a stranger. But they reflect my insider's knowledge of the situation. And if they sound harsh, this is not because of the lack of political correctness. This is how I evaluate the situation or the people.

I love my country and respect many things in its way of life and culture. But the things I mention are real, and I have strong opinions and feelings about them. I could be wrong, and some Russians see the situation differently.

I understand that you have another opinion, I don't want to "convert" you. I can even promise - ta-dam!!! - that if we meet one day I won't stabb you for having another oinion. I will be friendly and even offer you a pint.

[topum.livejournal.com]

My comment had nothing to do with political correctness at all. And I did not know that voicing my opinion means giving someone a lesson. Thank you for opening my eyes on how clueless I am. I beg to differ. I do not agree with you and think that freeing yourself from the responsibility of being civil to the majority of people in your country because all of a sudden you judged them as not being deserving civility is fucked up. Yes, some Russians think differently. And many don't. Writing those off as not deserving civility is something I don not agree with.

And man, please do refrain from schooling me on how clueless I am, ha ha. You know nothing about me and are not the person I am willing to appoint my eye opener at the moment ). No offence.

[diejacobsleiter.livejournal.com]

you have another opinion, I don't want to "convert" you

This means that to be your eye opener is the last thing I want. No need to be defensive. We share opinions, not argue, even less try to convince each other. I don't mean our talks to get hot, let's calm down. You misunderstood my words (for example: you asked how it can be that people freely vote for "aliens", I offered a metaphorical and general description how that mechanism works, and you accused me of uncivil treatment of my compatriots "sheeps" etc. etc.). No offense taken, nor given. It's OK.

I am far from the age when I felt a need of complete understanding with people. It just never happens, and I learned not to worry about it. I take as an axioma that I don't know and don't understand you nor anybody in this world. And if some flashes of understanding occur, I take it as a miracle.

I am far from being an uncivil brute, believe me. And I don't teach you. Peace, my friend, I like and respect you - as far as I can understand you.

[topum.livejournal.com]

I somehow posted the below answer twice so I am removing one of the copies.

[topum.livejournal.com]

Oh I never had anything but peace in mind, man, hence all those )) and "ha ha", I really don't know another way to do it online ). I am just a straight talker. And you trying to calm me down and brand me defensive for no reason does sound patronising, ha ha but I know you enough to be sure that it was not your intention so I am OK with it ) (I am getting really liberal with those smileys to make sure you don't suspect any attacks on you, ha ha). I am not defensive, I only asked you not to get personal (like "you are clueless") because I know that it is a slippery slope even when not done intentionally and can easily end badly. Also, I don't think that either if us has any basis to get personal with each other. I think it is OK to share views, disagree with each other's opinions and call them wrong and even horrible as long as we do not start attacking each other personally (however unintentional it may be), that was all I asked.

And I have to be especially careful with this with you given that you give yourself the right to stop being civil to me if you judge me not to be worthy of civility, so I had to nip your attempt to brand me as "clueless" in the bud, ha ha. Now this last sentence was 100 percent a joke ).

On a serious note and not in any relation to you, I met quite a number of Russian immigrants in London who were not very fond of Russia, its people and the current regime there (boy would those guys go to enormous lengths to become as non-Russian as possible, ha ha). I am not fond of the current regime there too. I get most of my info about it from the western media, which is hardly biased favourably towards Russia. They also considered themselves very liberal and pro-democracy. Their way of fixing things in Russia almost always boiled down to what I called "defeating the bad Stalin with a good Stalin". They really wanted to fight the dictatorship and the authoritarian regime but only by being dictators and imposing an authoritarian regime themselves. They gave that right to themselves because their dictatorship would be "good" and was necessary to defeat the "bad' dictatorship. The irony of this was somehow lost on them. And I think there are many problems with this, one of the biggest ones is that it assumes that half of the country is somehow these evil (or incapable) people who are beyond repair and consciously chose to be on the side of evil and therefore they do not deserve to be talked to. I somehow have never met such people in real life though, even in countries which are split in half where the two halves hate each other and to me, there is an enormous amount of hubris to this view. I think democracy is very hard to get to, especially after a dictatorship and it is inherently at a disadvantage in its battle with dictatorships but one really has to go through all this hardship to get there because installing it via another dictatorship is not possible and if it happened it would never be real. There will be a revolution sooner or later, I hope it is a velvet one this time.

[diejacobsleiter.livejournal.com]

I'll answer a bit later, I have a class to prepare.

Only one thing. I don't reserve a right to be uncivil with anybody, it was an awkward expression or I was misunderstood. Evil things happen. And they have proper names. Until we know somebody, we cannot call them with bad names. But after we do, yes we can call a murderer - murderer, and a dictator - dictator. This is not any more uncivil than to agree with NorthKorean words about Trump and Clinton. (I agree and don't think it was uncivil.)

And yes, I know this funny syndrome of antistalinist stalinism. This is one of the problem of Russian politics: the opposition is a mirror reflextion of their opponents in power. But all this is not my cup of tea. "A plague o' both your houses!" I am not involved in any political activity, Russia can relax about me, I'm not going to rule it.

[topum.livejournal.com]

Oh but it is very different i think. I understood you where dismissing the absolute majority of voters in the country as "sheep", "servile" or whatever else and considering their votes not worth much. You can call a murderer a murderer, you cannot strip them of their rights because of that (they still do have some). And comparing most of the people in the country who decided to vote in a way that you don't agree with to murderers with their crime being simply voting not the way you do is something quite different in my mind.

[diejacobsleiter.livejournal.com]

No, "sheeps" was a part of metaphoric explanation of how the mechanism of stokholm syndrome in politics work. However I do know the "sheep behaviour" too. I didn't mention it, but here it is. Do you know that all or almost all goverment institutions OBLIGE their employees to vote for the Putin's party and TO PROVE that they really did by bringing the photo of their vote bulletin? Oblige means: you vote like this or you are fired. And the majority votes. It's universities, police, civil services. Somewhere it's harder, somewhere decent bosses don't press. But this is the picture of elections of the last 12 years. And the people obey, because they are afraid to lose their job. (In Stalin's time they'd lose their lives.) And runet is full of disgusting tips how to cheat: put a tread on your bulletin (looking like a pen mark), take a pic for your bosses, and then vote as you wish. This is just one detail of the picture, there are many more. What do you think?

Sorry I need to go for many hours. See you tomorrow.

[diejacobsleiter.livejournal.com]

I needed to finish a very big job, and then slept 12 hours. Now, here I am, hi.

“get most of my info about it from the western media, which is hardly biased favourably towards Russia”

The problem with Western media, which I read everyday, too, is not infavorability, but the fact that their talks on Russian subjects are deeply inadequate. It can be smart and professional; it can be very precise in economic analysis. But the people who write about Russia are just normal western people without the experience of living and acting in Kafkian mental space where things don’t mean what you expect them to: president is not president, parliament is not parliament, police is not police, etc. etc. All the names mean something else. “Fair is foul and foul is fair”. Even journalists living in Moscow need many years to get the idea of what is happening.

I don’t mean that they are stupid, no. And when I say that somebody doesn’t have a clue, I don’t mean ignorance, I mean: good for them. Because this Kafkian experience is something I wouldn’t recommend to anybody to have. It’s sick and evil and damaging – what we passed in soviet schools, soviet army, and soviet everyday life. We lived in a world of well-structurized evil, delusion, and total lie. It was traumatizing for everybody. (I don’t exclude myself, so there is no hubris or highly raised nose).

And of course there were people who wanted to rule this “empire of evil” (built on the “material” of good people). Politics is always a cynical world. But in USSR, it required a much higher level of cynicism and evil personality, to be the part of the ruling machine. It especially concerns the people in KGB. Their education included strong dehumanization training, which made them aliens and occupation army in their own country. (Dehumanization training of special services is a long tradition, from the times of Ivan the Terrible at least). This is why they felt and organized themselves as secret lodge of special superhumans above the law and ethics.

In these 25 postsoviet years, there were hopes that we will get rid of our traumas, ghosts and the KGB lodge quickly, but it didn’t happen. On the contrary, traumas appeared to be deeper than we thought, and stronger than our desire to get rid of them. And the KGB lodge took advantage again.

“half of the country is somehow these evil (or incapable) people who are beyond repair and consciously chose to be on the side of evil and therefore they do not deserve to be talked to”

No, it´s your words, not mine. My feeling is not hubris. People are deeply traumatized and involved in this “”foul=fair” order of life. It’s difficult to get rid of it. I don’t blame people and don’t feel myself free from traumas of that epoch. Not half, but about 10% is consciously and cynically involved in evil; I have no doubts about it. Among others, there are just people with deep fear (I feel it myself, all my life) and so they can be easily brought to obedience. Is it a “sheep” behavior when people obey the orders how to vote and don’t say “go to hell!”? Yes, it is. I hate and despise it in general, but I don’t blame real people for this. I understand how and why it happens.

It will take much time to repair the damage. And no revolutions, please, for God’s sake! Even velvet ones. Russia is up to the neck in bad experience with them. Slow evolution only.